The above interview is an interview was broadcasted on the “Our Studio” program on February 28, on “Direction Radio”. Of course, the Turkish speakers can listen. But today I have translated this interview into English, with my great language skill:), by serving to humanity without neglecting my duty to them, for you.
Radio interviewer, Ulas Can
Guest participant, Kemal Okuyan, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Turkey
Interviewer: Now we will talk about Stalin on this part. Why we will talk about Stalin? Because a movie came to the theaters. Actually this issue started a little over it: “The death of Stalin.” We will talk about this with the author of the book “To understand Stalin” and General Secretary of the Communist Party of Turkey, Kemal Okuyan. Mr. Okuyan, “hello”.
Kemal Okuyan: Hello, how are you?
Interviewer: We’re fine, thank you. Are you all right?
Kemal Okuyan: We’re trying to be good. Yes.
Interviewer: I did not watch “The death of Stalin” movie. I do not think to watch. But a bit of controversy has been going on in the past few weeks. One of our theater players went to this movie, who is also liked by the left circles. And he tweeted such as “You see, the dictators will end up like this,”. Anyway, I will not dwell on that subject. Still people continues strive against Stalin. It’s been 64 years since his death. But as we used yesterday in introduction, their enemies still do not to leave him in peace. I’d like to start first from here: Why there is so many enemy of Stalin?
Kemal Okuyan: When we look at the 20th century now, we see that mankind is in a great struggle. In other centuries, tough quarrels were made, but in the twentieth century, there were two great wars of humanity. Fascism were experienced. It experienced in many countries of Europe, not only in Germany. And 20th century was a cross-section of very sharp conflicts, wars, coups, civil wars. That has been a result of this cross section. When the twentieth century was over, a system which was a hope in the name of humanity was destroyed in those fights; the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. It was collapsed, but humanity was not pleased and not satisfied with the closing of the 20th century. There is a seeking. Naturally, in its seeking, it is trying to hold on to icon events, symbolic countries, symbolic leaders of the 20th century.
They have to destroy them. So, they are the forces which demand the continuation of today’s order, today’s status quo; which they are imperialism, monopolies in the world, are the circles of capital. They have to destroy some positive elements of human history, from the memory of mankind. In fact we see another example when we look at Turkey. For example, Turkey has a war of national independence. I do not want to go into some discussion here. But, why it is struggled against the Independence War of Turkey? Why they strive against its figures, like Mustafa Kemal? Because, today they want to destroy it; they want to erase that historical era from the memory of the society.
Now, when looking from here, Stalin has such an importance like that. For a very long time, Stalin led the Soviet Union. The founding leader of the Soviet Union is undoubtedly Lenin. But Lenin’s leadership in the Soviet Union actually lasted 5 years; after he was sick, then he died in 1924. From 1924 to 1953, Stalin was the leader of the party, has put his signature almost all the major turning points in the Soviet Union. Now, whatever they want to do in here, there is a fact; into his period the Soviet Union made great breakthroughs. Look, industrialization, that is, they passed from a ruined farming country to a developed industrial country. A significant part of the inequalities, I am not saying all, but they have removed a significant part of inequalities. There was no one, hungry, homeless, unemployed. There was a tremendous mobilization in terms of health and education. An educated society emerged. And while doing this, they were in war in almost 2/3 of these dates.
Kemal Okuyan: And they were exposed to the most brutal attack of the world. This society has come out of this attack on its feet. In 1945, Stalin was idolized not only in the Soviet Union but also in Europe and even in the United States. Also for non-communists he was a hero. And that was not because only he did overcome Hitler, also due to he ensured to stand on a country’s own feet. Now they have to destroy it. So, they are spinning around… Look, are we constantly bringing Stalin or other values to our schedule or in our explanations? Are we crazy? We will always look back? But they can not give up. Because they have to go back and carry on this fight all the time. Why? They have to remove the memory of mankind. It’s the issue.
Interviewer: Of course, the memory is not removed in a day. Maybe that should be said those. Because of you talked about the Second World War, this came to my mind. Over 20 million Soviet citizens in World War II…
Kemal Okuyan: 27 million
Interviewer: Yes, 27 million Soviet citizens are losing their lives. Of course, it is not right to compare losses, but how many US or British citizens have lost their lives in the war? If we look at these numbers, we see how much big sacrifice the Soviet Union made, and they prevented the transformation of the world. We can see that they prevented Hitler’s capture of the world. Is it correct?
Kemal Okuyan: Yes
Interviewer: But I do not remember a movie about it. I mean, at least I do not remember a movie that everyone can remember. But there are a lot of movies about how the Americans or the English defeated Hitler in World War II. Young people think that the second world war is this way. So America and England came, they fought together, they beated Nazi Germany. They think the Soviets possibly was ally with them.
Kemal Okuyan: Some also think that the United States fought against Germany and the Soviets. So, there is a foolish society. Look, it is being continuously said the lie. The best proof of this is, in fact, a saying from Churchill, who was one of the world’s well known anti-communists. Churchil says that:
“Facts in the war are very valuable. But near to those facts, you need to add an army of bodyguards that consists of lies.”
Thereby you are right. The role of the Soviet Union in the Second World War is being tried to hide by the west. They have to. Why? Because humanity is unhappy. Now in Russia, the Soviet Union has been demolished for many years, it was demolished in 1991. When you go to Russia, you see there, and at there they could not stare down. It is said many lies about Stalin, it is said Stalin was murderer-dictator, but today half of Russian society sees Stalin as the most important idol of Russian history. Those who want to explain this with nationalism, have a problem like that: Stalin is not Russian. Georgian. Therefore, there is a leader that people have trust. To be liked or not. Now they are trying to destroy it. Because this leader was representing another social order.
If there was any leader, it would have been suited their book. They would have said, “such a great person has lived in history, was an important leader, need to respect.” But it is not like that. He symbolized the opposite of the capitalism and anti-thesis of today’s established order and he has always fought for it. Like I said, his mistakes, deficiencis are the other issues. In fact, they are not fighting against the Stalin’s mistakes, but they are fighting against the historical mission that Stalin carries. So nobody deceives himself. I’ve watched some parts of the movie, as much as I could find on the internet. It’s a very poor movie. Because I have seen that they gathered many things after Stalin’s death, with some truths and some gossip, they tried to create a parody from them in movie. Sloshy. It is bad in artistic meaning. Humor is bad in it. There is no need that people who were respected in here to say that the dictators would end up like this. The end of the dictators is being like Musollini. Anyone remember Musollini? Half of mankind today is not convinced of the lies about Stalin. This is a very important thing. There is so much propaganda, and this propaganda adverses effect.
Interviewer: In fact, I do not want to go into very detailed internal discussions, but Stalin’s debate begins immediately after his death; is it correct? If it needs to say a few words about it. At the 20th party congress, Khrushchev coming. And the first thing he did was to criticize the list. So although the downfall of the Soviets is actually thought to be with Gorbachev, there was a beginning at there, right?
Kemal Okuyan: Of course, it is very difficult to explain this in a limited time, but in the year of 1956, three years after Stalin’s death, Khrushchev took the leadship of the party in the Soviet Union, to get along well with the west… There’s something very interesting here.
Interviewer: I tried to ask you, to uncover it.
Kemal Okuyan: Yes. Sometimes, some burdens can not be carried. What makes Stalin important is that he is a leader in a country where comes up from behind and known the superiority of western imperialism, but nevertheless tries to be independent and goes to on own way. When we look at Khrushchev, his battery ran down. It is not only Khrushchev’s, but the accompanying team of him that it was hardly possible to struggle against western imperialism of them as an eye for an eye. So, the first thing they done is that this is exactly the crafty, something that will not work, to sell themselves to the west. They were supposed that western imperialists will not come over the Soviet Union. So the first thing he done, Khrushchev said in sort of, “I’m not like Stalin; I discredit the leader you’re most afraid of,”.
And he does this so badly that there is no criticism there. There are a lot of gossip. Later, it turned out that 90% of these rumors were lies. But Khrushchev gave this in the gold platter: “We sold a very important leader.” That’s the way it is. After that, it is very difficult for the Soviet Union to survive. I do not say destruction was its fate. But this mistake, try to look cute to western imperialists, to think that they will be in peace with them side by side, to think they can go for many years with them, and to think westerners’ plans will give up to destroy the Soviet Union, is foolish. They made the biggest mistake that could be. Even if Putin, for example, is a capitalist and an anti-communist politician, but he is very careful about Stalin. He’s trying to not criticize Stalin openly. Why? Because when he makes that, it will lead to another. In this time, they will say that Putin is the dictator, you are dictator too. Today there is competition between the United States and Russia for other reasons.
Interviewer: You are possibly visiting Russia. Stalin is still in Russia, so as you have mentioned, a beloved character, leader.
Kemal Okuyan: Beyond love. Something like that. There is both love and tremendous longing and seeking trust. Now on the wall of the Kremlin are the graves near by Lenin’s mausoleum. When you go there, if go to 1:00 am or go at 6:00 in the morning, it does not matter. One of these graves does not appear due to the flowers. This is Stalin’s grave. The Soviet Union has already collapsed. This is not something that will make with order or government decision. And I will tell you about a second grave. In the same way, the top of grave is full of red carnations. It is the tomb of Nazim Hikmet. It’s in somewhere else. However, flowers are always on the grave of Nazim Hikmet. There’s a real love here. They are the people who are dead anymore. It can not be explained with fear, fanaticism. So these lies are upside down. Someone who’s been said many lies about himself, are more protected by people. I will also tell this to you from our aspect. This is not the problem of todays. But we have such a problem. If we allow some events in history to be distorted, it is not just the Stalin issue. Today, for example, fifty thousand lies have been said about Syria. They are said in the United States, Turkey, in England end etc. If we overlook them, we allow the distortion of facts, with this or that reason, if we surrender to this campaigns, neither in Turkey nor in the world we can stand up. We have to beat the lie. Stalin has positives and negatives, but 90% of the writings about him are lies. Openly lies. Moreover, they are proven lies. They are trying to create a world through it. Humanity will not allow this.
Interviewer: We thank you very much for your participation in our broadcast…
Kemal Okuyan:Thank you too. Also, greetings to the listeners of Direction Radio, from here.
After listening this interview with WD, I have asked to WD.
-What do you think about this?
WD: Members of the Soviet Communist Party in the 1950s were gossipmongers.
-You understood only this?
WD: Yes. If they had been in this era, they would have made the best gossip tv-shows on tv!
-You too would have participated in that programs.
-You’ve gossiped a lot of time about me till today. You are kind of expert about gossip. You just did not speak, also you wrote them in here on our blog.
WD: That is a different issue. You are an ailen, and my writings are real, not gossip. Don’t overcome me Migo! Shall we go out?
WD: Can you buy me ice cream, Migo?
-No. Because it’s harmful to a dog’s health.
WD: It is a gossip, Migo. Well… just one lick from your ice cream?
WD: Damn you, Migo!